An Unexpected Answer from a Spiritual Being in my Dream

61 comments

• Enjoyed reading your experience, very insightful experience. Thank you for sharing it.

• Thanks very much for sharing this experience, Olga.

  There is so much to learn and sharing our experiences can make this journey easier to understand at times.

• Hi Olga,
  I was re-reading your experience, and that message you received and understood:
  “I realised that in my pursuit to find answers, whether in my prayers, reflections, or attempts to work things out, I was avoiding a very important perspective in the entire dilemma which Belsebuub illustrated symbolically in my dream. While I was shaken up by the challenges I was facing, the symbol was telling me to look deeper into my own psychology and what I was able to do from an inward perspective.”

  Again, it stroke me as the root of everything, as so elemental, yet so elusive and difficult, that how whatever happens, events, situations and news – what we are left with is our response to it and toward others.. And how so easily, too easily, we always look for outside reasons to either blame or get answers from.. Anyways, thanks again for sharing, it was nice to be able to read it again, and further reflect.

• “No matter how difficult something may be, if I honestly and objectively draw my attention inwardly to the emotional knots of an uneasy psyche, I could come closer to find the answers that I am looking for.”

  I can really relate to how you expressed that, Olga. I remember it as the silver lining to a personal challenge of mine – realizing that there’s hope! Even though the inner conflict carries with it the weight of impossibility, like there just isn’t a conceivable way it can be overcome, when it’s tackled inwardly and sincerely, there are these gems of clues that come through in various forms that I feel lead to a better and better understanding of what the cause to the issue really is and what is required to prevail. I’m amazed that we’re able to get help when we ask for it and even so directly as in your experience.

• Thank you Olga for sharing your wonderful experience. In Belsebuub’s work I had the chance to learn and realize about the importance of dreams and started to give serious attention to them. From then they’ve played a basic and strong role for my learning and decisions. I appreciate deeply the help I’ve been given in my dreams and usually when I hadn’t expected it.

  Thank you everyone for this wonderful and very strong discussion. I don’t know from where to start and where to end, but you have all hit me very deeply. I can relate to many things that have been said, but also you have helped me, as i was reading, to suddenly see realities relate to self deceit within me, towards I was completely blind. where self deceit traps me in the details of my daily routine and I ask, waiting to be helped when I’m not doing any acquired effort in my day or where I pray and hope the difficulty will pass without really deciding to face the related egos I see within and really want to continue complaining and the difficulty to be passed by itself.
  And this surprises me because I thought I knew through all the experiences with self deceit and the suffering how powerfully my pride combining with other elements can deceit me, but it seems I have no idea how much merged this is in my everyday habits.

  My pride many times has blinded me when I wanted to succeed at something, as I look back. I remember once I wanted to overcome a problem and I prayed continuously every day for hours closed in my bedroom. I thought I had to put this discipline in order to gain the help I wanted, but I wasn’t seeing inwardly, who wanted. When I finally accepted that I can’t succeed in this and this is far as I can go, I felt released and found peace within and after a while seeing the problem passing I got shocked and finally realized what had taken place in me. Self deceit keeps us trapped in a lie but when we have the opportunity to see these egos in us and how they work we can escape from this box we are in and that feels so relief, we find peace, life seems more easy, but unfortunately it seems that I’m tapped very easily in this box.

  Thank Olga for sharing Belsebuub’s words: “Many times our relationships highlight the egos we have within”, they hit me so strongly making me reflect deeper on this.

  Sorry if I said too much and many thanks again to all for sharing your helpful experiences and insights.

• Sounds like a great lesson Olga and thank you for sharing it.

  It’s quite remarkable the way spiritual beings and higher forces are using in order to teach us in astral or physical. Like a huge inteligence doing things in a way, that we can not even imagine how.
  About self-deceit, It should be something I should be aware that is very common, but Instead, I think I know and it is very difficult to live with the awareness that deceit can be everywhere.
  On the other hand receiving guidance makes a huge impact on what I think I learnt and I know from then and on but I forget (again…) that deceit can easily sneak in again anytime.

  Thank you for raising those points. Good to reflect on and take it from there.

  • Hi Fotis, I have found that to be so true, self-deceit can be anywhere and it can sneak in anytime. It is somewhat ironic why this kind of deceit is so destructive, considering that it comes from our own selves, as though protecting alterior motives residing within. It’s like I can always be helped, move forward, have strength, but like you said, self-deceit can be just around the corner if we are not honest with ourselves. For me I have seen self-deceit after the fact of many incidences, but I wonder about all the times I haven’t seen it. In my opinion, its such a mysterious part of self-discovery.

• Thank you, Olga. It makes me feel, right now as I’m sitting here, that I need to look inwards and work on all those things that I see. It’s so easy to forget and to fret around aimlessly during my day. It also makes me yearn to have that deep connection with the divine, and to listen to them, and show up every day so they can teach me. Sometimes I feel there is a thread that I have to hold onto, and not let go of 😮

  • Hi Anne Linn, I have felt that too, fretting around and worrying – while in the back of my mind thinking that I need to sort everything out for the benefit of my spiritual development. Despite my interest in spirituality for many years, it seems that worry is the common approach I have to many things, only to later realise how so much is achieved through an inner and reflective calmness to seek the answers and solve problems.

    Like you say, its really a whole different approach to be ready to be taught and open to learn, and a lot of it seems that it stems from how we spend our time throughout all the happenings of the day.

• Thank you Olga for sharing your experience. I have also been grateful when Belsebuub guided me in my dreams. These dreams bring with them a degree of seriousness that makes you pay attention.

  I am also grateful that you described the effort that went into this dream and the fact that you had to reflect on it afterwords. This reminder to reflect on dreams is what stood out to me the most because it is something that I struggle a lot with. I feel like so many dreams give guidance, but it often requires an additional effort to be able to understand this guidance.

  • I’ve also been feeling a bit similar at times lately Alex. Receiving dreams and guidance, but not taking that extra step or the needed time to properly make use of them. Understanding the meaning of some dreams can be instant. But often the symbolism in these dreams is given just above our level where we are able to immediately interpret them, so it’s almost asking for that effort to be made on our part.

    Sometimes I don’t fully make use of things I’ve been shown, yet ask for ‘a lot of guidance’ for the next night 😉

  • Yes, I feel this too. Often I wake up from a dream that I even remember quite clearly, but I don’t write it down and then I forget. But when I do write it down, even something that seems a bit silly, I get some sudden insight into it.

• Thanks Olga very inspiring, it can be strange sometimes the way that we gain insights and teachings often come in ways that we dont expect, I have missed valuable information in my dreams only to realise later on reflection as what was being shown

• Hi Olga,
  I am so pleased you shared this story. I have found it most valuable to read and reflect upon. There is definitely inner deceit within me, that goes on tirelessly because of inner subconscious states that keep me locked into ‘ego mode’; and therefore hinder, interfere and block the prospect of becoming more conscious (and connecting with the Divine)… being honest with ourselves, being brave enough to look within our own darkness is key. Your closing paragraph really hits home too! Thank you…

  • Thank you for your comment Dimi. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that we need to be brave in order to face self-deceit. I think its a very easy solution to look away and ignore certain faults (or not take things more seriously) and much harder to look into the eyes of our own darkness.

    I don’t know why, but coming across the notion and the mere possibility of ”self-deceit” has gripped me from the first time I heard it mentioned in the context of spirituality. I guess I always wondered if its something I would ever face, and to what degree?

• Olga, the situation you went through and that lesson, it really resonates with me, because I’ve gone through a similar thing myself.

  I won’t write all the details of my particular situation. Also not to say that your experience was the exact same as mine or that I know exactly what you went through and got out of it.

  I was also going through a period of my life where I was desperate for guidance. This was extremely tough and I kept praying and praying, at night and everything, so much that I felt I couldn’t anymore. I felt at a loss. It was very tough because it felt like my whole ‘life and awakening’ depended on it.
  In my dreams I was given very strong symbolic messages, again and again. Very loudly so to speak, almost shouting it at me. But I did not understand…. I didn’t know exactly what it meant or how it linked to action in my life and could therefore not carry it out. This unknowingness brought even more tension, anxiety, pressure with me getting even more desperate.

  I did not have such a beautiful, meaningful, helpful visit like you mention. But the solution was the same. I reached that understanding in a different way, more during the day and over time. I was so engrossed in that question of what to do, looking for this guidance, or even direct help, to get me out of it. Whereas I should’ve made sure I had the focus on working on myself, seeing what was going on inside, which would’ve given better oversight and control, and naturally and deservingly would have gotten me in line. I would have even known the reasons for my question and need for guidance even. Basically If I had made sure that inner work (awareness, self-observation, elimination of ego’s) was going strongly then I would have been in line. Things would’ve been clearer and better.
  I’ve still got some difficulty describing it, maybe because I don’t understand it all perfectly yet.

  But how meaningful is the help that you got from Belsebuub.

  I am sometimes able to see difficulties as an opportunity to gain strength, if we push through it in the right way. But it’s a bit too simplistic a view to apply to all difficulties that we face, some too big to handle. In this scenario it’s apparent how incredibly valuable the help of a spiritual being is, giving us wisdom and understanding, whereas otherwise we would’ve been lost.

  Mmh, Funny how I said I wasn’t going to mention much and then proceed to write a lot :p
  Thanks for sharing Olga. Wishing you all the best to see clearly within yourself.

  • What you shared Karim, resonates with me deeply too. I can even say that I have gone through two big events in my life where it was so similar to your experience – as though I prayed ‘the life out of me’ to search for answers. As though the events themselves needed to be altered through divine guidance – whereas it was really me that needed the altering (as there was a treasure chest of inner knowledge I could have uncovered – which was probably why I experienced those events in the first place).

    I also clearly remember how the dreams I was having were intense, giving me answers, but I couldn’t connect the dots. Perhaps because I wasn’t willing at the time to look within and take responsibility for my actions, my behavior, my internal demands, expectations etc.. (It all had to go according to ‘my’ plans…)

    Thankfully, there are enough nudges to help us feel the conscience kicking. And even more so, I find Belsebuub has a mountain of resources that offer great reminders just how much spirituality is an inside job.

    • Thank you Karim and Olga for sharing these valuable insights. They really help me.

      ‘If I had made sure that inner work (awareness, self-observation, elimination of ego’s) was going strongly then I would have been in line. Things would’ve been clearer and better.’ Precisely!

      ‘As though the events themselves needed to be altered through divine guidance – whereas it was really me that needed the altering’ – My very trap as I wrote below.

      ‘I wasn’t willing at the time to look within and take responsibility for my actions, my behaviour, my internal demands, expectations etc.. (It all had to go according to ‘my’ plans…)’ I can so relate to this. Really what I needed to hear.

      I feel really grateful to read this while I’m in this type of a difficult situation, to give me direction how to handle myself. The situation and other people I can’t handle, but I only ever can and should handle my own reactions to things anyway.

    • “I find Belsebuub has a mountain of resources that offer great reminders just how much spirituality is an inside job.”

      This sentence is what I came to realize time and again when I went through difficulties. I found that I was often confused about the external situation, but in reality I should have been looking at the inner state. When I opened Belsebuub’s books this message was reiterated to me time and again.

  • Karim,
    Thanks for your sharing your similar experience. It resonates with me to a degree, although I’ve never been quite so torn through uncertainty. Your story also shows that prayer alone is not always enough to get you out of a tough spot. And it’s good to remember that when we’re struggling with anything… There needs to be action to go along with that prayer. Thanks for reminding me of this.

• Your experience is very helpful Olga.

  I can also relate to it in the way where I have also been in a similar situation of uncertainty in my life and have found myself puzzled about what to do. I to resorted to pray and dream guidance which also revealed that the answers where to be found within myself rather than to external events and other people.

  Thank you for posting. This reaffirms and is helpful in reminding me of the importance of this because it is so easy to lose sight of ☺

  • Hi Penny 🙂

    ”The answers were to be found within myself rather than to external events and other people” Exactly!

    I think while I have failed personally so many times to have these grand expectations upon external events and other people, wishing these things to change, while missing the opportunities to work within and develop inwardly from these past mistakes – a valuable lesson has remained that I can hopefully bring into future events.

    Reminds me of the saying:

    ”There is no such thing as failure, only learning experiences” – Anon

• What a serious message and on so many levels, I appreciate you sharing it Olga its been very helpful and insightful.

• It’s great that you were able to find the real meaning of that dream Olga. I feel that there is always some form of guidance in my dreams but I am unable to remember them, which is probably related to the very state that I need to address in the first place.
  It is nice to see that your prayers have been answered through this dream as it helped you to turn your attention elsewhere. It is not easy but it is the only way to get us out of the situation and the feelings that surround it, in hope that the fight within will help us to face other life circumstances that will for sure come our way to test us in order to move us even further towards the everlasting light.

• Thanks for sharing your experience Olga, your accounts have been very inspiring to read and has given me some great insights into my own challenges.

  I am truly amazed how diverse the lessons can be from spiritual beings 🙂 Sometimes the help we receive isn’t necessarily pleasurable, but can be exactly what is needed. I guess for myself this can be difficult to understand and appreciate at the time. I hope to reach an understanding where i can be truly thankful for these situations as it allows the opportunity for inner change, which i usually miss as a result of this comprehension.

  I really liked reading the quote from Belsebuub that you have shared..

  In this world it’s easy to be in self-deceit as to what’s going on within. You could say, ”I’m not really an angry person,” but if you look into your dreams you could find yourself shouting and arguing. Over there no one can hide, and so dreams become a very valuable source of information.’’ – Belsebuub

  I have seen this self deceit within myself, like on the outside in this physical reality i can feel like I’m going ok with a certain defect. But this usually shows otherwise in my dreams. As Belsebuub has mentioned they can be a very valuable source of guidance which is very fortunate for us.

  • Thanks very much for your comment Chris. I find that many times the understandings come when we plunge ourselves into learning experiences. I have personally complained to my self many times for my lack of understanding, however, I feel someway this also diverts my attention from just getting on with things and creating that understanding for myself through effort and exploration.

    What you wrote about being thankful is so true. It reminded me of a small situation where internally I was complaining a lot, and didn’t understand what to do but wallow. But in the a split of a moment, I apologised, and began to thank my divine father as I had the remembrance of how much our divine parents orchestrate situations for our learning. This switch immediately changed my mood, and I felt my perception broaden and move away from my previous lower state.

    When I am stuck, I find it helpful to do things to help me see the situation differently, so as to not fall into the traps and routines of the mind. Reflecting on this now, it seems that being used to a certain response is probably one of the hardest things to overcome – because in this work you have to get un-used to many things.

• That sounds like an incredibly challenging and uncertain time, Olga. I can really relate to that continual prayer and trying to get guidance. Sometimes that feels like our only option.

  It sounds like you were given just the lesson you needed, even if it was given with more seriousness than you had hoped for. The Being Belsebuub really knows how to teach!

  I think we can sometimes be given rather stern lessons and it can feel a little unsettling, but it is a wonderful testimony to divine mercy that we can are given the precise guidance we need (with no sugar coating). It shows we are in good hands, even if we aren’t immediately comforted.

  • Hi Mike,

    Thank you for your comment. I think your last paragraph is really crucial. As they say: ”The bitter truth is better than a sweet lie.”

• This is really inspiring Olga, thanks for sharing that.

• Hi Olga, I am so glad you’ve shared this experience, as I found it so very helpful and inspiring. It’s amazing though how you felt that you had no idea what to do in this scenario, yet with simple genuine prayers and the guidance you received from a divine being (Belsebuub) in your dreams, and the symbol you saw, you were then able to work through it, and know what to do.

  It’s like we can do it, but not without help from above and I feel this understanding and this humility is so needed in order to change and be able to be open to receive this guidance, knowledge and understanding.

  Thanks again 🙂

  • Thanks Geraldine, its so true what you say. Humility is such a big part, since if we felt we were in any kind of superior position given any circumstance it would be like we knew what the destination would be – and didn’t need any help. Yet I have found that humility gives an openness to tune in to the divine, as we acknowledge the reality of our mistakes and interest to learn.

• Thanks for sharing Olga, expecting the unexpected I can relate to that.

  • Yes, that’s the only way to go 🙂

    Expectations can be blinding!

• That’s a wonderful account Olga, thank you for sharing. It always amazes me how Belsebuub teaches.

  It’s such a valuble lesson to go deeper within when we are faced with uncertainty without.

  I remember once having this lesson from my divine mother. I was immersed in confusion about which way to go, and constantly asking for guidance, but with a lot of complaining in there too. I had a dream where I was just driving down a familiar, local road, everything was totally mundane and normal. But I felt her presence so strongly, like she was everywhere and in everything and right beside me and right inside me. I was being shown how to be aware and appreciate the beauty in everyday life, and when I woke up I knew that this is where my answer lied – not in being told “go here, do this”, but by being told, “go inside, look around you.”

  • Simply beautiful Ella.

  • That’s so beautiful, thank you for sharing Ella!

  • Thanks for sharing Ella.

• What an amazing answer to your prayers Olga! It definitely sounds like one of those “teaching dreams”, where everything is very clear and we think we are in the physical plane. It is also great that you were able to understand the meaning of Belsebuub’s teaching and apply it successfully in your life.

  I can relate to praying a lot during difficult periods, and also wanting the answers regarding “what to do”. But the help often comes in different ways than I would expect, but always very helpful in the end.

  Thank you for sharing and wish you a continuous Divine guidance!

  • Thank you Lucia 🙂

    Since I really had no idea what to do, I had no other choice but to take heed of Belsebuub’s dream appearance and consider what it was trying to tell me. At the same time I am greatful that I didn’t shrug the dream off.

• I feel inspired and uplifted after reading this, Olga. It’s a difficult lesson, just seeing Belsebuub walking past stern and silent when you were hoping for encouragement and straight(er) answers, but it’s so inspiring how you were able to see your self-deceit through this lesson, not feel down or ashamed or something but continue on ahead in the new direction. It seems like he knew exactly what you needed, even though it wasn’t what you thought you needed. It’s so nice he came to help you like that, empowering you to find your own answers. I hope the situation was resolved in the best way in the end and you grew internally through it 🙂

  I can really relate to the ‘internal complaints and frustrations’ when faced with difficulties, not knowing what to do, not seeming to be able to get the answers you are looking for despite the efforts being made. But then, it helps to ask myself, is my behaviour in my life, even if just in my psychology, and towards the higher beings, really what it should be, am I really working to get to a level where I can receive the guidance I am looking for, and be able to value it and implement it? Is it possible I am thinking too highly of myself, allowing attitudes or behaviours that shouldn’t be there? Am I a person that can be guided, who can or deserves to receive answers right now? And if not, am I doing everything I can to get there, both internally and externally? Reading your experience made me see I have to ask myself these things far more often 😮

  I love what you described about using any opportunity you had to pray to your divine parents or any higher forces you felt connected to. I feel the need to do this also, instead of filling those spare moments with something of lesser value and importance, vainly hoping the answers will come if I just wait.

  I am really thankful that you shared this Olga, as it helped me to get a perspective on something I’m struggling with and get some answers, or at least hints, myself 🙂 Much love to you!

  • Thanks very much for your insightful comment Laura. I think those are extremely valuable questions to ask, as it seems it helps to have that perspective of remembrance and to be accountable for the things we do. At least whenever we can remember 🙂

    In my case, and in this particular experience, I found that while prayer had always been a big part of my life, (and still is) I realised that it kind of overshadowed that self-reflective approach to be accountable for my own inner states and to take better notice of my psychological behaviour and underlying reactions. It seems that in a way I was searching for the divine, and the heavenly realms, without really considering the soil on my clothes. I was searching for a solution outside of myself, whereas the damaging element, and the root of the problem was within me all along – but at the time, I dared not see myself as the problem. It made me wonder what underlying ego states could conspire in prayer? Could self-deceit and good feelings hide in prayer? That being said, I probably prayed so much that the divine beings were shaking their heads at me that I couldn’t see the problem in plain sight 🙂

    Thank you for all your kind words. I also find your experiences very strengthening and inspiring. Much love to you as well Laura <3

    • That’s insightful Olga, thanks. I’ve come to realise that my prayers only feel genuine when I’m actually trying to change. Otherwise it starts to feel too similar to what I didn’t like about the whole ‘go to Church on a Sunday to say the Lord’s Prayer and then sin all the rest of the week.’

    • Thanks Olga for sharing your insights a bit more on your experience, it was really helpful to read and something that I can relate to alot in my own approach but until you explained it so well I wasn’t seeing it. Much appreciated!

    • This is so helpful Olga. It’s like I’m reading about myself 😮 in prayer overshadowing the self-knowledge aspect of spirituality.

      I can see myself (or the subconscious aspects of myself) sometimes trying to use prayer as a way to get out of a difficult situation more easily 🙁 Like hoping and praying they will come to pick me up and rescue me and make things alright again, but I’m missing the point massively when I do that – the difficulties are there to help me learn and change, or a result of my past mistakes or negligence etc., and only then can the external situation change, when I change.

      Lately it’s been helpful to ask, ‘show me the error of my ways and help me to correct them.’ Sometimes I feel like it is in this that all I need is condensed, and I don’t even have to say any more, asking for strength, guidance and protection is truly all I need.

      Haha 🙂 I know, I’ve thought this too, I’m knocking and ringing at their door all the time while my own house is neglected and in chaos and I should be attending to that first.

      Thank you for sharing <3

      @Ella True! Thank you.

      • Hi Laura, I have done the same… praying for a difficulty to go away (indirectly at least), when in fact it has been given to me to deal with and understand myself deeper (to hopefully end the cause of my discomfort and to transcend.) I don’t know how many times I have done that, and how many missed opportunities I have gone through. It seems that sometimes we may think we are alone, but so much is done for us so that we can learn to break into a much higher way of living.

        • This is beautiful Olga. I think so often I’ve made a mess of my opportunities, or have lengthened and made my problems worse, because of this negative ego belief that I’m alone, the higher beings are punishing me, they don’t care, I’ve been abandoned, I can’t do this, etc. Terrible, terrible things to tell myself because it is so untrue and makes me not feel like trying. Whatever I have I deserve (both good and bad), whatever is given to me is for my learning, growth and improvement, all administered with love.

        • Hi Laura, I can relate to some of those feelings as well, and I know I have many times fallen into similar dwellings.

          From what I have seen, much of the current circumstances (that I complain to a lot!) are a result of my own actions.

          I remember Belsebuub mentioning somewhere that many times our relationships highlight the egos we have within. Reflecting on this a bit more it makes me think how many conflicts, or things that we cringe at when interacting with others are in some ways like looking into mirrors. So it may be that we wish that this person (or overall event) be removed from our lives, but in reality, elements and reactions from inside of us could have never come out onto the surface unless this person (or mirror) was there in front of us.

          Just thinking about the influence of higher beings rearranging our lives, gathering people together, so we can learn is just mind-boggling and humbling. To ask for things to be again rearranged or removed seems somewhat disconnected from the reality of things and the purpose of gaining knowledge. Harder said then done, but it just brings many things to mind about my own personal attitude.

          Thanks for all your comments, its been very helpful to keep delving deeper into this topic.

      • Great point Laura, your not alone in that, I’ve missed the point many times like that.

        Personally, I’ve seen in myself that there is a fundamental basis from which we take up the spiritual work and sometimes beliefs or ideas or both, can deceive us into thinking we’re doing it all for the reasons we started out upon, but when those difficult moments come, our actions don’t often reflect that reason but highlight something else that needs further digging into, revealing another level of self deceit which has its own tangent and we didn’t even know it. Its a very hard reality to face, because there can be many things built upon that way of being and over time it amounts to a lot of time but it can also be a relief to discover, to see, that at least there is at least, if not golden, opportunity to start again on the right foot.

        Thanks for your lovely share, and for everyone’s great discussion on this great learning experience from Olga

        • Thanks for the great insights Layla, I never considered the mental approach one has to spirituality at the beginning, and how this can shape the way we experience our learning through a longer period.

          I also appreciate the further expansion into this topic as it has brought a fuller picture to so many issues related to self-deceit and prayer that I never had a chance to openly share so I appreciate all the extra input and observations.

    • I have found a similar thing with my own prayer at times. I found that I can sometimes pray and ask when I should really be aware and observe within.

      • Yes I’ve been in this situation too. A few years ago, I kept praying for help and divine guidance but it seemed as though I was on my own. I kept praying and asking for help but again it was like this silence and I began to wonder why and I tried to reflect on this situation and realised that I was like a person sitting on the ground calling out to someone to pick me up when I wasn’t even trying to help myself up. I didn’t realise that the help was there patiently waiting and guiding but not in the way that I thought or expected it it should be. That realisation helped me to be grateful for this learning in a way that I didn’t anticipate and it gave me strength, showed me where I had been going wrong and I realised also all the things that I could do to help myself in the first instance.

        In parenting I think they call it ‘tough love’ 🙂 hard for everyone for a while but in the end its the best for everyone in the long term 🙂

        • You are absolutely right Layla, I also prefer the tough parenting approach vs getting diagnosed with the spoiled child syndrome.

          Its very clear to me that in the position of ‘the child’ we may think we know everything about ‘the parenting’ which is done upon us… but the purpose of a child is really to grow, evolve and come to understand things, and not have everything put on a plate – otherwise it will never truly acquire an independence rooted in the wisdom of personal experience and exploration. I think I have had many personal demands upon those ‘parenting’ approaches, only to realise how dependent I am for things to ‘happen’ rather then really create a foundation within my own life to evolve and be responsible for my fate.

        • Yes I know what you mean Olga, there is a difference between asking for divine help and expecting to be given understanding just because we ask and not putting ourselves in the position for the opportunity to gain understanding, or even to undertake the learning.

        • Thank you so much for sharing Layla. I felt like I was reading about myself – so often this image/feeling/symbol comes to me, I mean just the way I realise I’m dealing with problems, sitting (or even laying!) down on the ground, begging the Divine to pick me up on my feet again. But how will I be able to walk on my own if I can’t even get up. Then it is this strange state where I’m locked in this despair of thinking I can’t get up because things are too overwhelming, and I make myself feel more and more wretched so that the Divine could have pity on me 😮 Oh dear!

          So yes I agree the opposite approach is what we need – find our own inner strength, or the tiny spark of it that we almost can’t believe is even there, stumble up, take a few quavering steps, and suddenly the help is there, helping us to walk a bit better, but we took the first steps on our own.

        • Hey Laura, Olga, Layla and others.
          Just to mention I had another moment of this ongoing realisation this morning. 🙂 I woke up in the early morning and was trying to remember my dreams as usual, but I couldn’t seem to get to that dream ‘just behind’ the one’s I remembered. My recall is not the worst, but I’ve seen that I need to improve my concentration, as well as some others things during the day for the needed improvement in those moment of dream recollection. I knew this but instead ‘just this time’ I asked to be helped to remember it. However I noticed that this ‘just this time’ has actually been going on for a very long time now on many mornings. So when I asked……. nothing, not a thing. 🙂 It was exactly one of those moments where I was asking for something that I should be doing myself, and I knew it. I feel that the attentiveness to this insight is thanks to its focus in this discussion. So thanks for that!

          Anyway I started doing Raom Gaom and what do you know that dream behind the other dreams started coming to me.

        • Thanks for sharing Karim, another great example of the importance of independence 🙂

        • This made me remember something I think one of my parents said to me: at some point, you have to stop blaming your parents for everything! Works for the both the physical and divine parents!

      • I had an exact small ‘moment’ like that today actually Aleks. I was feeling a bit low and decided that it would be good to go for a fresh awareness walk. When I started the walk, still being in a low state I almost automatically started this wallowing prayer in talking with the mind and it really hit me— NO instead of that, right now it is actually the time to put efforts into perceiving the external world and get clear (which in a way is another form of prayer or ‘choice’ to go for consciousness anyway.)

        • That sounds awesome Karim 🙂

        • That’s true – our actions is our choice, and our heart in them is the prayer, even if there are no words. Better than that whining wallowing prayer 😮 Thanks for sharing that moment Karim.

        • ‘Whiny, wallowing prayers’ … oh dear, I’m beginning to get more of a distaste for this internal stance! It’s so true though, how we can just winge and sob for help, owch … take it away … rather than asking for the qualities that we need to be able to overcome the difficulty and to actually grow spiritually, to instead beg for it to be taken from us really is the wrong approach!